AR15.Com Archives
 .223/5.56 NATO small primer pocket difficulty
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
1/31/2010 4:14:58 PM
I'm reloading some once fired military brass for the upcoming NRA high power season and have run into a problem with seating the primers in some of my brass. I am having some difficulty in getting my primers to seat. It is as if I did not swage or size the pockets.

Just in case any part of my methods are are fault, here's a quick list of my steps up to priming my cases.

Deprime brass, tumble (Midway 1292 tumbler), drain and pick out media in primer pockets, spray with Hornady One Shot & resize, trim to length, deburr neck ( in & out), deburr flash hole and use a primer pocket reamer to size and cut depth in case. Before placing in tray I make sure the primer pocket fits easily over the small swaging button of my RCBS primer pocket swager.

I started with a Lee Auto Prime but it seemed not to center the case correctly. I just purchased a RCBS Hand Priming tool ,model 90201 ( the new one with the one size fits all cases ) and that works better but is still requiring too much force to seat the primers in some of the pockets.

I've had this problem with both military 5.56 ( Lake City ) and PMC .223 brass.

Thanks for your help
Jeff
Paid Advertisement
--
dp29  [Member]
1/31/2010 4:39:52 PM
You didn't say anything about removing the primer crimp that on some commercial & most all military cases have a crimp ring around the primer which helps hold the primer seated in the primer pocket. IF the cases do have that primer crimp, the new primer will have considerable resistance to seating, especially with you using a hand seating tool, when
you try to seat in the primer pocket. Often the edge of the new primer will tip as it strikes a part of the crimp which will cause more resistance to being seated & with enough force to seat will deform the new primer. Have you removed the crimp around the primer pocket on cases that have a crimped in primer??
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
1/31/2010 4:43:56 PM

I checked each case on the small primer swager out of the RCBS kit. I feel if it slips into the primer pocket by hand, running it in the press will not make a difference.

forrest0872  [Team Member]
1/31/2010 4:59:10 PM
Why aren't you decapping and FL sizing in the same step?

Dillon primer pocket swager may be your answer.
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
1/31/2010 5:21:05 PM
Originally Posted By forrest0872:
Why aren't you decapping and FL sizing in the same step?

Dillon primer pocket swager may be your answer.


I got his brass from a friend from another forum. I wanted to check it and clean it before putting it in my resizing die.




This is my swager, I used the small swaging button to check the primer pocket size. they all fit over easily.
raf  [Site Staff]
1/31/2010 5:32:15 PM
Originally Posted By Jeff-in-Pa:

I checked each case on the small primer swager out of the RCBS kit. I feel if it slips into the primer pocket by hand, running it in the press will not make a difference.



I'm a bit unclear as to whether you swaged the primer pockets or not. If not, simply checking the diameter of the primer pocket with the small swager means little. If you take a close look at the swager, you will see a small radius at the step in the shank of the swager. This radius, when used in conjunction with the press, forces a matching radius into the brass at the edge of the primer pocket. This radius acts to help guide the primer into the pocket. The same effect can be had by using a case neck de-burring tool to cut a chamfer into the edge of the primer pocket at the same place.
glorifiedG  [Team Member]
1/31/2010 6:03:42 PM
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Jeff-in-Pa:

I checked each case on the small primer swager out of the RCBS kit. I feel if it slips into the primer pocket by hand, running it in the press will not make a difference.



I'm a bit unclear as to whether you swaged the primer pockets or not. If not, simply checking the diameter of the primer pocket with the small swager means little. If you take a close look at the swager, you will see a small radius at the step in the shank of the swager. This radius, when used in conjunction with the press, forces a matching radius into the brass at the edge of the primer pocket. This radius acts to help guide the primer into the pocket. The same effect can be had by using a case neck de-burring tool to cut a chamfer into the edge of the primer pocket at the same place.

Yeah that don't work so great, been there.All it does is add another angle, still not round and smooth like the Dillon swager does.
Either swage them with your RCBS tool and see if that fix's it or get the Dillon, that will fix it.
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
1/31/2010 6:13:46 PM
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Jeff-in-Pa:

I checked each case on the small primer swager out of the RCBS kit. I feel if it slips into the primer pocket by hand, running it in the press will not make a difference.



I'm a bit unclear as to whether you swaged the primer pockets or not. If not, simply checking the diameter of the primer pocket with the small swager means little. If you take a close look at the swager, you will see a small radius at the step in the shank of the swager. This radius, when used in conjunction with the press, forces a matching radius into the brass at the edge of the primer pocket. This radius acts to help guide the primer into the pocket. The same effect can be had by using a case neck de-burring tool to cut a chamfer into the edge of the primer pocket at the same place.

Yeah that don't work so great, been there.All it does is add another angle, still not round and smooth like the Dillon swager does.
Either swage them with your RCBS tool and see if that fix's it or get the Dillon, that will fix it.


Thank you both raf and glorifiedG

I looked again at the swaging button and saw the radius you were inferring to. The diameter I was checking it on is probably just a locater.

Later this week I'll do another hundred rounds and will use the RCBS swager on each case and see if that does in fact make a difference.

Thanks again

Jeff
jfwyatt1  [Member]
1/31/2010 6:14:05 PM
the rcbs swage tool is supposed to slide into the primer pocket of even a crimped case easily so that it can swge the pocket if you are not swaging the cases then you are leaving the crimp. swage a few cases and see if that dosent fix your problem.
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
1/31/2010 6:30:44 PM
Originally Posted By jfwyatt1:
the rcbs swage tool is supposed to slide into the primer pocket of even a crimped case easily so that it can swge the pocket if you are not swaging the cases then you are leaving the crimp. swage a few cases and see if that dosent fix your problem.


I would like to thank you too ( including all who replied )

I just grabbed four PMC cases ( which are known to have tight primer pockets) and resized then swaged them with the RCBS swager.

Although they still required some effort, they did work much better when seating primers than earlier.

Looks like I have one more step to add to "new to me" cases.

Thanks for you help.
Jeff
KB7DX  [Team Member]
1/31/2010 8:23:50 PM
Remember to re-adjust the swaging rod for each brand of brass. Yet another step...
CJ7365  [Member]
1/31/2010 9:31:45 PM
Just use one of these http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=501588

Take 50 pieces of brass, sit in front of the TV set and turn the dam thing 3 times and your G2G, maybe 10 minutes of "work"
dryflash3  [Team Member]
1/31/2010 9:37:32 PM
This is how I use the RCBS swaging button as a go / no go gauge for primer pockets.



No Go, does not enter PP all the way. This PP needs the crimp removed.





Go, gauge enters all the way with slight pressure, crimp removed.
dp29  [Member]
2/1/2010 1:20:08 PM
As a supplement to KB7DX's useful suggestion, be careful to NOT adjust to rod/stim in the die that presses against the bottom inside of the case too far down.
Doing so will cause the rod/stim to bend. All reloading presses have way more than enough mechanical force to bend that rod. I have bent several of the RCBS rods.
To prevent bending the rod, I suggest It is a better practice to risk under swaging the crimp & then adjusting as needed to get the crimp ring removed as you wish than
to try be too aggressive at removing the crimp ring. The thickness, height of the case from the base of the case to the upper part of the bottom inside of the case does vary a good bit with different case makers. That is why you should never assume that your adjustment that was correct on the last batch of cases will also be correct on the next batch.
EWP  [Member]
2/1/2010 1:37:50 PM
Get the Hornady primer pocket reamer, it's faster than swagging(I also have the RCBS tool) and it gives you a perfectly uniform primer pocket on each piece of brass with a nice bevel for an entry guide and even uniforms the side walls to a smooth perfect size for easy priming. The cutter is sharp and takes little effort to use, plus it's very well made and wont get dull or over cut your primer pockets.
stanprophet09  [Team Member]
2/1/2010 5:43:52 PM
I was having that problem even after reaming the crimp out, I picked up the RCBS swager tool and went through the brass that I had already reamed. I had many that did not ream correctly, now the reamer may be worn out, the swager worked great and took the crimp right out.
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
2/1/2010 7:39:29 PM
Originally Posted By EWP:
Get the Hornady primer pocket reamer, it's faster than swagging(I also have the RCBS tool) and it gives you a perfectly uniform primer pocket on each piece of brass with a nice bevel for an entry guide and even uniforms the side walls to a smooth perfect size for easy priming. The cutter is sharp and takes little effort to use, plus it's very well made and wont get dull or over cut your primer pockets.


Here's the two reamers I have


click for bigger pic

I have been using the one on the right.

TripletDad  [Member]
2/1/2010 7:55:56 PM
If you are going to use the Hornady reamer, it is my belief you'll need to uniform the primer pockets first. At least that's be my experience. I think if the pockets aren't uniform, then a few of them are going to be a few thousandths shallow, then the reamer won't go in far enough to remove all the crimp. Since I started doing things that way, it's become much easier.
Jeff-in-Pa  [Member]
2/1/2010 8:08:54 PM
Originally Posted By TripletDad:
If you are going to use the Hornady reamer, it is my belief you'll need to uniform the primer pockets first. At least that's be my experience. I think if the pockets aren't uniform, then a few of them are going to be a few thousandths shallow, then the reamer won't go in far enough to remove all the crimp. Since I started doing things that way, it's become much easier.


I will do that, thanks.

I used my M1 Garand previous to this for NRA High Power matches and the large primer pockets in the mil brass never gave me this problem after swaging.

These itty bitty 5.56 brass are giving me fits
We-rBorg  [Member]
2/2/2010 2:23:02 AM
It seems that most primer seaters or case rims are a little off center, so if you move or twist the case, the primer will seat without a lot of pressure.
Using any type of primer seater, if you just put slight pressure on the primer and wiggle the case, theprimer will seat easier.
I use the Lee and just set the case in and with SLIGHT pressure, wag the case a bit and the primer seats easy.
'Borg
glorifiedG  [Team Member]
2/2/2010 9:01:17 PM
Originally Posted By We-rBorg:
It seems that most primer seaters or case rims are a little off center, so if you move or twist the case, the primer will seat without a lot of pressure.
Using any type of primer seater, if you just put slight pressure on the primer and wiggle the case, theprimer will seat easier.
I use the Lee and just set the case in and with SLIGHT pressure, wag the case a bit and the primer seats easy.
'Borg


Excellent point I just found out recently, using wally world Federal value pack brass.Even after running them through the Dillon swager priming is not so smooth. The crimps are worse/sharper edges/deeper cuts on these than LC and just slightly worse than Privi.I decided the FC brass gets reloaded 2 times than in the range garbage can for someone else to decide what to do with it.On many of them the primers go in so easily it's almost scary. This brass is for plinking-55 FMJ only.Winchester brass is still my favorite.
Paid Advertisement
--